Thanks Daniele. Yes, I miss a lot of the 'oldies' from Ratz, and I remember especially Jules had quite a bit of experience with rats with PTs, it would have been nice to have shared. Noah was my first ratty that I've lost to a PT. I'd be interested to know about her webpage. PTs are just horrible! I hope I never have to go through that again.

I'm really sorry to hear that Hannah, your poor boy.

It's a real shame that some of the 'oldies' from Ratz don't come on here any more as I know quite a few had experience of PTs & would be able to help you. Jules did start another webpage when Ratz unexpectedly shut down - don't know if you are interested? She had a few rats die from PTs.

I hope you are OK & Noah is a happy boy on the Bridge.

Daniele

Thanks Sarah. I laid Noah to rest in the back garden this afternoon although it was pouring with rain. I'm about 90% certain that Noah had a pituitary tumour, even though the vet wouldn't commit himself to any specific diagnosis. But when he said about "something going on, possibly a tumour, somewhere between the back of his throat and the back of his head," I immediately thought this sounds like a PT. Noah had many of the symptoms; loss of grip in his hands, lethargy, floppiness, unresponsiveness, some lack of co-ordination, mild confusion, the quick deterioration, and latterly semi-consciousness, a slight head tilt, and some blood coming from his mouth, which I've since read can happen if a pituitary tumour ruptures. He must have been in so much pain on Thursday night but, like you say, he is happy now and at peace.

Aw,((Hugs)),Hannah,I'm so sorry.It sounds like a tumour so there's nothing you could of done for him.He held on as long as he could and at least he went peacefully at the end.Its sad that he was so young but he had a wonderful life with you and he is happy and at peace now.You did the best for him you possibly could.
xxx

Thanks Daniele, but sadly Noah has gone :( I stayed up with him all night last night. He was no longer able to support his body with his front legs, they were just flopped beneath him, and his body kept lunging forward powered by his hind legs, and each time he let out a squeak. I knew he was in pain, and even between the body lunges when he lay still, his head kept jutting forward. It was horrible to watch, but just as I thought he was about to die, around 5AM he finished eating his dish of baby food. I'm not sure what time I fell asleep, around 5:30AM, and half expected him to be gone when I woke; he was still breathing but lying still and looked peaceful.

I was late making the Friday appointment and couldn't get to see the vet until 5:20PM, but thankfully Noah remained peaceful all day, although today was the first day he refused to eat, and this afternoon he appeared to fall into semi-consciousness. The vet took one look at him and noticed a slight head tilt. I hadn't noticed this myself and am certain something else must have happened in his little body this afternoon when he fell semi-conscious, and by the time I got him to the vet, a small amount of blood was coming from his mouth.

The vet examined him again very well but said there was nothing he could do :( I don't think now that a steroid injection could have saved him even if he'd had one last Monday. The vet still doesn't know exactly what was wrong with Noah but thinks there possibly was a tumour somewhere between the back of his throat and the back of his head :/ But a post mortem would be expensive and won't bring me back my big cuddly boy. He was only 15 months old :( I'm so sad.

Would a PT cause blood to come out his mouth? At least Noah is now at peace.

I'm really sorry to hear this Hannah - how is Noah today? One thing I have found brilliant for my ill ratties & it helps keep them hydrated as it's so wet is Ready Brek mixed with ag soya milk. You can add other things to it such as mashed up banana, avacado (mine love that), or honey.

I hope he's getting a bit better, I have to say I am surprised Noah didn't get a steroid injection too. Maybe you could ask your vet to think about prednisolone tablets & give him a really small dose to see if that helps?

Best of luck.

Daniele

Yes, Noah's symptoms really are strange, that he will eat but not drink :| Today he looks very peaceful and is asleep most of the time, but when I lift him up he feels very weak but hasn't lost much weight. I'm worrying though that I'm not getting enough water into him. He panics a bit when I do this and last night some water started coming out of his nose. I guess too much water can be as bad as too little :| I don't want to bloat him. The only good thing is he still wants his food, but his eating is now very slow but at least he still has an appetite!

I've never seen any evidence either of pet rats being kind to their sick cagemates. There's a small bald patch on Noah's head where one of the others pulled a clump of his fur out! And Charlie who was number four in the pecking order was suddenly looking very happy and pleased with himself that Noah was ill, which meant he would go up a peg in the social order - not nice thinking really!

I'm wondering if the vet tomorrow will say to have Noah PTS, but I'd prefer him to just drift away naturally if this is what must happen. But obviously if the vet thinks he's in any pain, then this will be the kindest thing. I just wish I knew what was wrong with him :/

Whatever is wrong it certainly sounds that he doesn't want to go anywhere yet and is enjoying his grub.Strange symptoms-I wonder what it could be?..He's so young as well :|
The egg food I've got is by Beaphar and I just got it at my local pet supplies shop.The rats love the egg mix but they hate the millet seeds and spit them out all over me so I've learnt to wear old clothes when I'm hand feeding!
He'll be appreciating all the care your'e giving him...Your'e Ratty Nurse of the week!!
I have read that wild rats will take care of their sick relations by gently leading them away from danger and bringing them food morsels but I've never seen any evidence of this in a pet colony-they're completey horrible!..I hoped to see evidence of caring behaviour when Nixie was still very weak.Teazle went up to her and gave her a tender kiss ....then snatched the food from her mouth and legged it!Oh well.
Good Luck at the vets tomorrow,I hope he has racked his brains and can come up with something for You both.

I've read that rats can make quick and complete recoveries from strokes so I'm hoping this is what it might be, but somehow I don't think so as strokes happen suddenly and when I think about it Noah hasn't been quite himself for a few weeks. It was nothing obvious and I just thought it was him being extra lazy but I was having to call his name quite a few times before he emerged from his bed when the others were already out. He always used to come out with them in case they were getting something tasty that he might be missing out on, but gradually he was getting more and more disinterested about coming out. All four of my boys are the same age, 15 months, so compared to my girlies they still seem young!

Noah's condition remains about the same but he's maybe a little more floppy than a few days ago. He still loves his food and is still eating on his own without my help but for some bizarre reason still refuses to drink. I've never before had a sick rat that wants to eat but not drink! I'm having to feed him water in a syringe every few hours, and even then some of it rolls out of his mouth, but at other times he appears to suck on the syringe like it's a baby's bottle, but last night he actually lapped up about half a teaspoon of lactol. This wasn't much but it was encouraging, so I didn't take him back to the vet yesterday as he said to return him if he wouldn't take food but to take him back on Friday if he was eating.

I keep looking out for any signs of stiffness particularly in his front legs, as this symptom would indicate a PT, but so far they are still floppy like the rest of him. He still responds to his name but not in any major way but doesn't seem quite so confused as he did, but I now have him in the hospital cage away from the others and he seems more peaceful. They were treating him like a log and standing on him which wasn't fair!

I'll see what the vet says when he sees him again on Friday but I don't know that he can do much. It seems just a question of keeping Noah watered and fed and waiting to see in which way his condition takes him, for better or worse :(

Did you mean the Quiko egg food? I've placed orders for this several times with different pet supply stores, only to be told they no longer have it in stock. I'll have to look out a different brand. All my little ones loved the Quiko products!

Aww,scritches to Noah... if it is a stroke that is something he can recover from.How old is he?Its good that he's still eating,that shows he is still putting up a fight.Fingers crossed for some improvement.Have you got any egg food in?Thats really calorific and nutritious and can be watered down.

Thanks Sarah. I actually have four boys, Noah and his brother Jonah, as well as cousins Charlie and Herbie, and of course little Molly and Phoebe :) so I really have my hands full now!

The vet gave Noah a thorough examination and watched how he walked around on the table and said that the grip in his hands is very weak. He also tried with an instrument to look down Noah's throat, after I said that he seems to be having trouble swallowing, but unfortunately Noah wouldn't let him do this and kept biting the instrument :-/ The vet does think that it's something neurological but he's not quite sure what. He mentioned nerve damage, a possible brain tumour or stroke, but he wasn't sure enough to diagnose a PT. He also mentioned inflammation and I've come home with a bottle of Metacam. I was a bit disappointed that he didn't give him a steroid injection, but if he's not sure what is wrong then I suppose the Metacam could be the safest option :-/

The vet also said that I'm to get liquid food like baby food into him every few hours and also to syringe feed him water and/or lactol as he still refuses to drink, and if all this doesn't work today and his condition deteriorates then I'm to take him back tomorrow.

So I'm left to try my best with him; getting him hydrated is my main concern, but I'm still none the wiser as to what exactly is wrong with him! He's gulping down the baby food and I have managed to get water into him via syringe, but he still seems weaker than he did this morning. Somehow I really don't think he's going to get better :(

Aw,no,Hannah :( ...poor Noah and I'm sorry your going through this worry.I didn't realise you had a boy too!!Sending You both vibes for now and tommorrow....xxx